More Inferences

Some more inferences from Adrian's article:"No Other Foundation"

The wise man built his house upon the rock, but our leaders now want us to believe that we built it on a very dangerous belief (literal Sonship of Jesus), that will in fact cause the loss of salvation! This is a fantastic claim that must be clearly understood. Our church claims that our forefathers ignorantly laid a poisonous corner stone that would kill us all and that later wiser leadership would have to correct this most terrible situation!

The quote given to support this was

  "What do we forfeit if God is only one Person? For one, Christ could not be our Savior. It took the Holy Spirit to bring Christ to Mary. It took the Father to answer Christ's prayers and give Him needed help. That's how important the Trinity is to us. Our eternal life depends upon this truth."
Adventist World Magazine - February 2010 Issue - Page 30 par. 2

Geoff, you and I both believe that the Father and Son are not the same Person, so we both believe that Christ can be our Saviour because of this.  You would probably also agree with the examples given as to why the it is important that the Godhead consists of separate Persons. The offending part of the quote must be "Our eternal life depends upon this truth (the trinity)."

Notice the author is saying that it is the "truth" that our eternal life depends upon, not as Adrian infers, our "belief" in that "truth". The author also explicitly states how the trinity saves; because Father, Son and Holy Spirit are separate Persons.

Does the author believe that non-belief in this "truth" will "cause the loss of salvation"? We could infer that, but remember it is only an inference, he (or she) does NOT SAY that.

Adrian will need a much stronger quote to make his inference a fact.

To state my own belief here; I don't think that it matters one way or the other for our salvation, what we believe on this subject. And the reason I believe that is because if it did matter, there would be "positive testimonies" on this subject from our pioneers.

Another inference from page 5:

The whole of chapter 23 of Great Controversy outlines the history of how God's people had a door opened for them into the Most Holy. It came by means of measuring the temple and finding the true Son of God. Notice carefully the words of the prophet concerning our pillars...

"After the passing of the time in 1844 we searched for the truth as for hidden treasure. I met with the brethren, and we  studied and  prayed earnestly. Often we remained together until late at night, and sometimes through the entire night, praying for light and studying the Word. Again and again these brethren came together to study the Bible, in order that they  might know its meaning, and be prepared to teach it with power. When they came to the point in their study where they said, "We can do nothing more," the Spirit of the Lord would come upon me. I would be taken off in vision, and a clear explanation of the passages we had been studying would be given me, with instruction as to how we were to labor and teach effectively. Thus light was given that helped us to understand the Scriptures in regard to Christ, his mission, and his priesthood. A line of truth extending from that time to the time when we shall enter the city of God, was made plain to me, and I gave to others the instruction that the Lord had given me."  RH, May 25, 1905 par. 24 

"Those who seek to remove the old landmarks are not holding fast; they are not remembering how they have received and heard. Those who try to bring in theories that would remove the pillars of our faith concerning the sanctuary or concerning the
personality of God or of Christ, are working as blind men. They are seeking to bring in uncertainties and to set the people of God adrift without an anchor." MR760 9.5

Here is a definitive statement that light was given to the pioneers regarding Christ, his mission and His priesthood. They are labeled as old landmarks and pillars and notice carefully the linking of the sanctuary and the personality of God and Christ. This is our anchor. But our Adventist scholarship must certainly deny this.The logic of our current position in the  church is that our pioneers dragged in their false beliefs concerning Christ and we all had to suffer the consequences for over 100 years.

"How God's people had a door opened for them into the Most Holy. It came by means of... finding the true Son of God."
There is no mention of the "true Son of God" in either quote. It can't even be infered. This statement cannot be sustained by quotes given. There is nothing at all about the Sonship of Jesus in either quote.

"...Christ, his mission and His priesthood... are labeled as old landmarks and pillars"
Once again Adrian is sloppy here. Yes, I agree that these are probably landmarks and pillars BUT it DOESN'T SAY THAT.  Adrian has put the two bits of the two quotes together and inferred that is what it means.

To be true to the first quote it would be best to say  "Christ, his mission, and his priesthood were truths that the pioneers understood after earnest prayer, Bible study and Mrs White's visions. "

Also trinitarians can believe the same as Adrian on Christ's mission and priesthood. So Adrian is inferring that making the word "Christ" mean "the literal Sonship of Christ". That is quite a long shot.



"...notice carefully the linking of the sanctuary and the personality of God and Christ. This is our anchor. But our Adventist scholarship must certainly deny this..."
Once again there is no reference given for this assertion. In fact the earlier quote (I am assuming the author was an Adventist scholar) states specifically that God and Christ are separate Persons.

But if Adrian understands personality in the modern sense, of "the complex of all the attributes--behavioral, temperamental, emotional and mental--that characterize a unique individual" then that is not a problem for even a Trinitarian to enumerate these attributes and connect them to the atoning work on earth and heaven.

However,  if you infer that "personality" means the literal Sonship of Jesus, Fatherhood of God then Adrian better supply some more positive evidence that this is what Mrs White had in mind. She certainly doesn't say that here.

I believe that the Sonship of Jesus and for that matter, the Trinity are NOT pillars or landmarks of the Adventist church. I also believe that the personality of God and Christ is essential. I want to thank you Geoff, for pointing this out to me in the past.

Also from page 5:
"Christ and the Sanctuary stand or fall together." Amen and amen... Preach it brother!! I couldn't agree more.

"If Christ is not literally the Son of God, then the foundations for a literal sanctuary in heaven have been smashed."? - I still can't see the link. Why would the fact that Jesus in not literally a Son, affect the literality of the heavenly sanctuary. I thank you for showing how real and literal the sanctuary in heaven is, but the inference that it is somehow linked to Christ's Sonship is still inference.

A denial of the literal Son of God MUST of necessity destroy the foundation of the Sanctuary in heaven which flows onto an erosion of a literal investigation; a literal law and literal victory over sin. All must stand and fall together and all are linked to the literal Son of God, for He is the WAY into the Most Holy ­ His very identity as the Son of God is the Door to understanding. pp5,6

No quotes are given to back Adrian's statement up. Personally I don't think Jesus is the literal Son of God and I'm very happy to see you preaching the heavenly sanctuary as it is a subject that we should major in. As for the investigative judgement, and the day of atonement, I believe this is probably the most powerfully evangelistic doctrine of our church. Non Christians are especially attracted to it, as are post-moderns and Muslims, in my experience. "The hour of His judgement has come" is wonderful news indeed! Preach it LOUD!

In this lawless time, the Law of Covenant is a shining light in this dark and hopeless world. Preach it too.

"Victory over sin" is the message that our youth and especially the men need to hear. This is a doctrine of hope and encouragement for the neutered Aussie man of today. When this catches on we will see a revival here in Australia that will send missionaries to every corner of our country and world. I really mean "men on a mission", real soldiers, soldiers of Christ, real men in their families, communities and churches.

Preach on brethren, this is why you guys are here... Don't get sidetracked with these inferences.

From page 6

By its very definition, the Trinity denies us the right to believe that the Son of God is literal. It demands of us a belief  that the Son of God is spiritual, an application, a working title but not His true identity.

The first sentence is true, the second is inference.
The Son of God is not spiritual in the sense that James White uses it. The spiritualisers that he was battling in "The Parable" believed that Jesus returned "spiritually" in 1844 (or when we were converted). They believed heaven was 'spiritual'. Another good article by James on this subject is "Personality of God". I agree with his conclusion there, that heaven is real and physical, as are the Father and Son.

My plea to Geoff, Adrian and any other anti-trinitarian is that you would give me "one positive testimony" from James White or any other person in the White family. I'm getting tired of inferences.

Inferences on James White

I must really thank Geoff and Adrian for alerting me to "The Parable" from James White. It has clarified his position and gave me a vocabulary to express my unease with the the anti-trinitarian argument. As always I have learned lots of other things too, so a genuine thank you.

Also thank you for the advice to "Read it again carefully". I did, and learned a great deal about the things that you should be telling us about Geoff...
The problem of "spiritualising"
The importance of a literal Sanctuary in heaven
The real meaning of the parable of the 10 virgins
The meaning of the 'bride of Christ'
The history of our church.

Now for a couple of principles from James White on how to find the truth from Scripture:

1. Positive Testimony not Inferences

Starting at page 21 when James is talking about the bride of Christ, he says

One positive testimony is worth more on this point, or any other, than a hundred inferences.

2. The Subject not Weak Inferences

from pp21,22

The principle Scripture brought to prove that the church is the bride of Christ, is Eph.v,22-33. But it should first be particularly noticed, that Paul's subject is the duty of husband and wife. The union that should exist between them is strikingly illustrated by the union that exists between Christ and the church. But the Apostle does not intimate that the church is the bride of Christ. Those who use this text to prove that the church is the bride, infer that it is so, merely because Paul chose the union existing between Christ and the church, to show the duty of man and wife. Those who have had much to say upon the (22) insufficiency of inferential reasoning should not rest their faith relative to the bride, on such a weak inference, which contradicts the plain testimony of John. Rev.xxi,9,10.

My impression is that most of the anti-trinitarian argument is inferences and Adrian's "No Other Foundation" provides some excellent examples.

Immediately preceding the quote in the previous post, Adrian says:

It is only through an understanding of the literal Sonship of Jesus could the door into the Most Holy be opened. p3

The quote does not back up this claim:
"Only"? - Also listed as being literal are our High Priest, the Sanctuary in heaven, Jesus, the candlestick, the Son of man, the Ark containing the ten commandments in heaven, the City and finally, the Son of God. Far from 'only'.

"Literal Sonship of Jesus"? - is never mentioned. The "literal Son of God" is what James says. We can infer that he is talking about "sonship" here because we know his theology, but a stronger inference would be that he is simply using another name of Jesus to drive home the point that He is the "literal High Priest in the literal Sanctuary in heaven".

"Sonship"? - the subject of this quote is to provide "a perfect safeguard against spiritualism". It is not an argument on the subject of sonship. In fact he states clearly that the perfect safeguard against spiritualising God and heaven is the "position...that a change has taken place in the position and work of our literal High Priest in the literal Sanctuary in heaven."

"only through an understanding"..."could the door into the Most Holy be opened"? - the part of the quote missed out indicates that it is was the ending of the 2300-day prophecy (not our understanding) that opened the atoning work in the Most Holy...

And more, when John says that he saw "one like the Son of man" "in the midst of the seven candlesticks," that is, in the Holy Place, we know not how to make the candlestick spiritual, and the Son of man literal. We therefore believe that both are literal, and that John saw Jesus while a "Minister" in the Holy Place. John also had a view of another part of the Sanctuary, which view applies to the time of the sounding of the seventh angel. He says, "The temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ARK OF HIS TESTAMENT." Rev.xi,19. Also, "The tabernacle of the testimony was opened in heaven." Chap.xv,5.

This being an event to take place under the sounding of the seventh angel, it could be fulfilled at no other time than at the end of the 2300 days. The Most Holy, containing the Ark of the ten commandments, was then opened for our Great High Priest to enter to make atonement for the cleansing of the Sanctuary.

So to sum up: There is no part of Adria's assertion that is not proven false by the context.

James' subject in the The Parable is to combat the deceptions of spiritualising (p16) and of thinking that Jesus is still High Priest in Holy Place of the heavenly sanctuary (pp19, 20), that come from a misinterpretation of the Matthew 25 parable of the Ten Virgins in the "few years" (p6) after 1844, (probably just after 1850 or 1851 p13).

Using James' second principle, this quote and the whole article is NOT on the subject of the Sonship of Jesus. While James is definitely non-trinitarian, I have never seen a single article he has written on the subject. (If you can find one, please let me know).

Sorry Adrian, but this is a very weak inference indeed.

James and the Parable

Geoff sent me the following in an email. It is a quote from Adrian Eben's "No Other Foundation" which in turn quotes from James White's "The Parable".


Quote from No Other Foundation by Adrian Ebens:

Notice carefully the observations of James White

Our position is, that a change has taken place in the position and work of our literal High Priest in the literal Sanctuary in heaven, which is to be compared to the coming of the bridegroom in the marriage. This view is a perfect safeguard against spiritualism. We not only believe in a literal Jesus, who is a "Minister of the Sanctuary," but we also believe that the Sanctuary is literal. ‐ And more, when John says that he saw "one like the Son of man" "in the midst of the seven candlesticks," that is, in the Holy Place, we know not how to make the candlestick spiritual, and the Son of man literal. We therefore believe that both are literal, and that John saw Jesus while a "Minister" in the Holy Place. John also had a view of another part of the Sanctuary, which view applies to the time of the sounding of the seventh angel.

...The Most Holy, containing the Ark of the ten commandments, was then opened for our Great High Priest to enter to make atonement for the cleansing of the Sanctuary. If we take the liberty to say there is not a literal Ark, containing the ten commandments in heaven, we may go only a step further and deny the literal City, and the literal Son of God. Certainly, Adventists should not choose the spiritual view, rather than the one we have presented. We see no middle ground to be taken. - The Parable Page 16

As I read the above statement, I am forced to stop and weep for joy. WHAT A GIFT God has given us in the person of James White and this statement! When I get to heaven I am going to grab this man and hug him and hold him tight and greet him with a holy kiss.

Here is the secret to our entry into the Most Holy Place. It is based on an identification of Jesus as the literal Son of God. Read it again carefully we know not how to make the candlestick spiritual, and the Son of man literal. We therefore believe that both are literal, and that John saw Jesus while a "Minister" in the Holy Place.

Our pioneers measured the temple of God and found the WAY into the Most Holy. Let us remember that a measuring of the Sanctuary is a measuring of the person of Christ.

Psa 77:13 Thy way, O God, is in the sanctuary: who is so great a God as our God?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


End of quote

Thanks for this Geoff (and Adrian) I will post about this, again.

For some more information, from Adrian's home page, download the excellent "Comparison Chart", under point 6.