Two Distinctly Loving Personages

I'm glad God the Father is a Person but much of Christianity, on the basis of John 4:24, 'God is Spirit', would disagree with us and make Him out to be some amorphous being. This, I guess, has something to do with Greek dualism - 'the body is bad and the spirit is good'. A non-Biblical idea.

As Mrs White points out, such a belief takes away the glory of both God and heaven. I know I am dwelling on this, but it IS really important that God and heaven and Christ are all physical.

The fact that the devil attacks at this point, all through Mrs White's ministry and into our time means that it is important. As she summed up in the quote below, men try to make the Son a nonentity by making Him 'one' with the Father.

And truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ." All through the Scriptures, the Father and the Son are spoken of as two distinct personages. You will hear men endeavoring to make the Son of God a nonentity. He and the Father are one, but they are two personages. Wrong sentiments regarding this are coming in, and we shall all have to meet them.
{Review and Herald, July 13, 1905 par. 3}

Satan would like nothing better than for the Son of God to be a nonentity, a person of no influence. And he will try anything to do it and a 'loose, lax religion' certainly would. As Mrs White points out below, the fact that Christ and the Father are two personages, yet are united, means that we are to be one with Christ. This unity proves God sent his Son to save us.

Christ is one with the Father, but Christ and God are two distinct personages. Read the prayer of Christ in the seventeenth chapter of John, and you will find this point clearly brought out. How earnestly the Saviour prayed that his disciples might be one with him as he is one with the Father. But the unity that is to exist between Christ and his followers does not destroy the personality of either. They are to be one with him as he is one with the Father. By this unity they are to make it plain to the world that God sent his Son to save sinners. The oneness of Christ's followers with him is to be the great, unmistakable proof that God did indeed send his Son into the world to save sinners. But a loose, lax religion leaves the world bewildered and confused.
{Review and Herald, June 1, 1905 par. 14}

This concept of 'oneness yet distinct personalities' lived out by us, makes salvation clear to a bewildered world. The unity of the Father and Son are an example of our unity with Christ. But this sets a very high bar because they were one in spirit, heart and character 'from eternity'. That spirit, heart and character was of unfathomable love.

The love of God was Christ's theme when speaking of his mission and his work. "Therefore doth my Father love me," he says, "because I lay down my life, that I might take it again." My Father loves you with a love so unbounded that he loves me the more because I have given my life to redeem you. He loves you, and he loves me more because I love you, and give my life for you. "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you." Well did the disciples understand this love as they saw their Saviour enduring shame, reproach, doubt, and betrayal, as they saw his agony in the garden, and his death on Calvary's cross. This is a love the depth of which no sounding can ever fathom. As the disciples comprehended it, as their perception took hold of God's divine compassion, they realized that there is a sense in which the sufferings of the Son were the sufferings of the Father. From eternity there was a complete unity between the Father and the Son. They were two, yet little short of being identical; two in individuality, yet one in spirit, and heart, and character.
{Youths Instructor, December 16, 1897 par. 5}

A church united with such love would be a powerful witness indeed. 'Almost identical' in loving, giving and longsuffering. Are we up to this Geoff?

So God and Son must be distinct personages or else 'love' becomes 'self-love'. No wonder Satan wants confusion here. He wants to make God's greatest attribute into selfishness.

I would really like verses that back this concept up. Do you know of any Geoff? From my limited knowledge, a few verses which seem to show the Father as being a Person are the vision of Daniel 7 where the Ancient of Days (v9-10) show Him as an awesome Being seated on a throne. which is similar to "Him who sat the the throne" in Revelation 5:1 with His right hand holding the scroll (v7) and being approached by "One like the Son of Man" (v13). In Revelation He is approached by the Lamb.

The Father's Person

The second truth is another wonderful one:
the Father is a Person and has a form so glorious that we can't see Him yet.

I saw a throne, and on it sat the Father and the Son. I gazed on Jesus' countenance and admired His lovely person. The Father's person I could not behold, for a cloud of glorious light covered Him. I asked Jesus if His Father had a form like Himself. He said He had, but I could not behold it, for said He, "If you should once behold the glory of His person, you would cease to exist...
Early Writings p54

This is Good News, God is 'real'!! We can relate to Him.

Most of the Christian world get themselves tangled up trying to explain the extradimensional, incorporeal and 'entirely simple' (therefore spirit alone). Some Hebrews felt the same, as do the Hindus.

All of these beliefs, seem to me, to have the effect of distancing God from us. Making Him into a distant, incomprehensible, ethereal spirit.

Why is it so important that the Father is a Person? One reason the booklet quotes is:

I have often seen that the spiritual view took away all the glory of heaven, and that in many minds the throne of David and the lovely person of Jesus have been burned up in the fire of Spiritualism...
Early Writings - Experience and Views p77

This seems to indicate that an airy fairy heaven is not a glorious one, I wonder if the usual cloud-sitting, harp-playing heaven has made people think of it as a boring place where people only exist as 'spirits'. It has made them prefer this down-to-earth existence now.

This reminds me of Nirvana where the enlightened Buddhist goes, he becomes one with the universe, so ceases to exist. Isn't it strange that these people spend their whole lives working hard to get to a place that is close to our idea of where the wicked will spend eternity. The devil has fooled so many peoples and religions.

Our job is to tell people that God exists! That heaven is a gloriously real place with a throne and Persons on it.

Won't it be exciting to see the Father for the first time?

just testing, geoff.

God Personified

We are still looking at that first truth, that Jesus is the a person.

In the Review and Herald, January 30, 1900, Christ or Barabbas?, Mrs White says:

The world is not improving. Evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. By rejecting the Son of God, the personification of the only true God, who possessed goodness, mercy, and untiring love, whose heart was ever touched with human woe, and choosing a murderer in his stead, the Jews showed what human nature can and will do when the restraining power of the Spirit of God is removed, and men are under the control of the apostate. Those who choose Satan as their ruler will reveal the spirit of their chosen master. {RH, January 30, 1900 par. 6}

From this we see that the Son of God is the personification of the only true God.

Websters 1828 defines personification as: The giving to an inanimate being the figure or the sentiments and language of a rational being.

While the Son isn't inanimate, I think Mrs White wants us to see that the figure, sentiments and language of 'the only true God' are in Christ because she goes on to say "who possessed goodness, mercy and untiring love, whose heart was ever touched with human woe." So not only is He lovely in form, He is lovely in sentiment as well.

We can see this clearly at the cross which surely has to be the greatest demonstration of "mercy and untiring love" that this world has ever seen. Mercy because we were the ones who should be punished but Jesus bore that punishment instead. Untiring love in that He loved us until death, despite all the coercion of Satan to give up on us.

We see this idea of Christ as a person being reflected in Adam and Eve:

Created to be "the image and glory of God" (1 Corinthians 11:7), Adam and Eve had received endowments not unworthy of their high destiny. Graceful and symmetrical in form, regular and beautiful in feature, their countenances glowing with the tint of health and the light of joy and hope, they bore in outward resemblance the likeness of their Maker. Nor was this likeness manifest in the physical nature only. Every faculty of mind and soul reflected the Creator's glory. Endowed with high mental and spiritual gifts, Adam and Eve were made but "little lower than the angels" (Hebrews 2:7), that they might not only discern the wonders of the visible universe, but comprehend moral responsibilities and obligations. {Ed 20.2}

Our first parents reflected the mental/mind and spiritual/soul of the person of their Creator as well and the outward physical form. In other words a 'person' consists of a mind, soul and form. Christ, Even preincarnate Christ had all these features.

As a human, I too, reflect the form and features of my Maker, not as much as Adam and Eve did of course. But with his help I can reflect His mind and soul.

So the truth that Jesus is a complete person means that He has real feelings of mercy and love towards us and we can reflect his thoughts.

Jesus has form

In looking at "The Godhead in Black and White" I found some neglected truths. Truths you must never give up or compromise, Geoff. These are things the church needs to hear. They are certainly things I needed reminding of, and to appreciate again or for the first time. Thank you!

The first truth:

Jesus has a form and is a person.

... I have often seen the lovely Jesus, that he is a person. I asked him if his Father was a person, and had a form like himself. Said Jesus. "I am in the express image of my Father's Person.

I have often seen that the spiritual view took away all the glory of heaven, and that in many minds the throne of David, and the lovely person of Jesus had been burned up in the fire of spiritualism. I have seen that some, who have been deceived, and led into this error, would be brought out into the light of truth, but it would be almost impossible for them to get entirely rid of the deceptive power of spiritualism. Such should make thorough work in confessing their errors, and leaving them forever. {Experience and Views p64 para1,2}

This is wonderful in that we can relate to Jesus personally, so we aren't relating to some vague thing as the 'spiritualisers' propose. We have 'the lovely person of Jesus' on the throne of David.

He was in in the express image of the Father, not in features alone, but in perfection of character.

We have an actual Person, not made in human image but who is the express image of His Father.

Websters 1828 defines 'express' (adjective) as: Plain; clear; expressed; direct not ambiguous.
1. Given in direct terms; not implied or left to inference. This is the express covenant or agreement. We have his express consent. We have an express law on the subject. Express warranty; express malice.
2. Copied; resembling; bearing an exact representation.

So Jesus is a plain, clear, unambiguous, exact representation of the Father. And in two ways:
Physical: in form and features.
Character: perfection of character.

When Jesus said He who has seen Me has seen the Father, He means that they are alike in character. This is great news. They are both loving and gracious, merciful and longsuffering. They are also alike in form and feature but separate persons.

Great Truths - My Condition

Probably the most personally valuable 'truth' to come out of my conversations with Geoff. has been the confirmation that I am a genuine member of God's last-day church...Yay!

Laodicea... Not so Yay...

In our talks I have acted with the pride of opinion, self-justification and blindness of self-love that typifies the church of Laodicea. I would not have seen this without our emails, it was too painful to look at myself. I honestly thank Geoff for the timely drops of 'eyesalve' that have allowed me to see my real condition.

This has reinforced, for me, the value of 'priesthood of believer principles'. We cannot reach any great height alone, we need fellow church members, especially those who disagree with us and tell us the truth.

Providentially, as I slowly realised my condition, "wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked", the quotes that he had me read were lifting up Christ as my only hope. Quotes like this one from The Signs of the Times , May 30, 1895, paragraph 3, Article Title: Christ Our Complete Salvation.

There is but one way of escape for the sinner. There is but one agency whereby he may be cleansed from sin. He must accept the propitiation that has been made by the Lamb of God, who taketh away the sins of the world. The shed blood of Christ cleanseth us from all sin. "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him." "Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins." A complete offering has been made; for "God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son,"-- not a son by creation, as were the angels, nor a son by adoption, as is the forgiven sinner, but a Son begotten in the express image of the Father's person, and in all the brightness of his majesty and glory, one equal with God in authority, dignity, and divine perfection. In him dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

Yes, there is hope in Christ! "The shed blood of Christ cleanseth us from all sin." Yay indeed!

The next paragraph is full of wonderful promises too.

John said, "We have seen, and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world." The Son of God took upon him human nature,--"the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us." "God was manifest in the flesh." The union of divinity with humanity brings to the fallen race a value which we scarcely comprehend. The human and the divine were united in Christ, in order that he might represent those who should believe in him. He took our nature, and passed through our experiences, and as our representative he assumed our responsibilities. The sins of men were charged to Christ, and, innocent though he was, he engaged to suffer for the guilty, that through faith in him the world might be saved. "We were reconciled to God by the death of his Son." Christ reconciled the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them. O, what compassion and love are here revealed! How is humanity exalted through the merits of Christ! His sacrifice was ample and complete. The Holy One died instead of the unholy. He clothed himself in our filthy garments, that we might wear the spotless robe of his righteousness, which was woven in the loom of heaven. He paid the whole debt for all who would believe in him as their personal Saviour. His blood cleanseth from all sin and purifieth from all unrighteousness. In him, through him alone, we have forgiveness of sins. Through faith in his blood we have justification in the sight of God. {ST, May 30, 1895 par. 4}

So that is the first 'truth'. I am a great sinner, but Jesus is a great Saviour. He alone can give me a humble faith in Him in place of my pride and His justification in place of my self-justification.

Thank your for pointing that out to me, mate.